Push UPS
Posted on:: January 16th, 2004
As I continue to try to figure out why my office eats computer equipment for breakfast, I’m thinking that my Uninterruptible Power Supply may be inadequate. Everyone who reads this knows more about electrical stuff than I do, so perhaps you can help me…
I have an APC UPS Pro 650, 650 VA, 400 Watts. My computer has, I believe, a 450W power supply. I also have a 22″ CRT plugged into the UPS. So, I think that my UPS isn’t up to the task. It’s
So, do I need a heftier UPS? If so, what specs should I be looking for? And any recommendations for brand?
Categories: Uncategorized dw
David –
I have a fairly loaded PC and a 21 inch CRT plus a couple little things (cable modem, IP phone box) plugged into a 350 VA UPS with no problem. I don’t expect my UPS to do much more then allow a graceful shutdown in case of a powerfail situation, but it should not cause the kinds of problems you’ve reported.
[sound of soapbox rising up under me]
Your choice of OS doesn’t help your (computer’s) stability problems.
[soapbox descends back to floor level]
I’ve also had real bad luck with Maxtor hard disks in the past, now buy Western Digital.
Regards and better luck,
Craig
a quick google shows 22″ crt’s seem to run 125-175 watts.
An easy way to tell how your UPS is keeping up is, not surprisingly, unplug it and see how long it runs things until it runs out.
I’d say that UPS is probably marginal with the CRT on, but it ought to warn you if it can’t keep up, and the power should still be clean.
Are you electrically isolating your other wires? like ethernet?
I’m actually more concerned about line conditioning than backup capability. This UPS is supposed to ensure a steady flow, as I understand it, but my monitor still goes all wobbly whenever an appliance with a heavy draw goes on.
Craig, I’m curious about the ways in which the Mac OS does a better job of protecting the electrical components. Or am I misunderstanding your comment.
It sounds like your line is experiencing voltage drops and your monitor is plugged into the surge/lightning protect outlets instead of the surge/lightning/ups outlets. If not make sure you ups is working by pulling the plug and plugging some load into it, like a small drill motor. I would do it with the computer off for obvious reasons. If that isn’t the problem try running the drill with the computer on and see if you get the wobble, it may be a defective signal cord for the monitor. And last but really it should be first make sure you have a good ground at the outlet the ups is plugged into, it can’t really do it’s job without one.
My guess is no – the specs on the UPS say 400W output, and your CPU power supply is 450W? I don’t think so.
Give me a bit, I’ll pass this on to the electrical engineer for an estimate on what you really need. Might not hurt to find out the wattage on the CRT in the mean time.
Rayne, another commenter says the CRT is probably 125-175W. Thanks for the help.
Likewise, Paul. The CRT is plugged into the right outlet. The UPS definitely works in terms of keeping my equipment going when the power goes off. But I don’t know if it’s doing what I thought line conditioning was supposed to do.
Our friendly local electrician is working up an estimate on putting in a new panel (we’re out of slots) and running two circuits up to my office. I’m hoping that it’s going to cost less than a new computer. Sigh.
Okay, “Dad” says:
>>He needs about a 700W to 1,000 W UPS that gives him about 10 to 15 minutes minimum run time AFTER a power failure so that he can log off and shut down in that timespan in the event of a power failure. He can get a larger but more expensive unit, but that is really not necessary, unless he really wants to and can afford it. This level of UPS will also take care of the brownout problem in addition to the surge and power outage situations. He has 3 conditions to cover.
1. Power surge. All units do this. Just get a HIGH joule rated unit.
2. Brownouts. This is the opposite of a surge, where the voltage drops. A good/proper UPS should cover this, but not the cheap ones. This is usually called AVCAVS or automatic voltage compensation/system. This feature requires an internal transformer.
3. Power outage. The size and cost of the
battery covers this, in terms of minutes. However, only 10 to 20 minutes is necessary. Any longer is a luxury and increases the cost. This is just to allow the user to save his work in progress and shut down properly.
The better units have a connection with the computer for better feedback and control.
Note: the proper unit should cost $125 plus. Name brands are APC and Minuteman. They can be seen at Office Max and Office Depot.< My extra two-cents -- your energy consumption in your office setup will probably go UP before it comes back down. Better to have an oversized system and fewer worries for the next couple years than do this all over again when another component is added or changed in the home office. Good luck!
Say thanks to your Dad for me, Rayne.
Care to ask him his opinion of APC vs. Minuteman? I have an APC and, from the specs, it seems that they’re more expensive than the Minuteman. In particular, the Minuteman Pro1100E looks good, but I don’t really know what I’m looking for. Are 500 joules a lot of joules? And it claims to have a “double-boost and single-buck AVR (Automatic Voltage Regulator),” which to me sounds like self-parody.
Anyway, if your father has an opinion, it will automatically supplant my own.
Thanks again.
Okay, will do — but if buying habits are a testament, I’m pretty certain he bought an APC for his summer home. Will ask what he bought for the winter home.
My folks have had bad luck with lightning; a strike in their pre-retirement home in Indiana, then another in northern Michigan. Naturally he’s pretty touchy about lightning; even with a UPS in place, he’s extremely about unplugging equipment when finished. His past purchases could be skewed a bit for this reason.
Back as soon as he replies. BTW, you might want to use the old UPS on your son’s system provided it’s smaller than 400W. If you’re looking to discard it, please either resell or find some way to recycle it since they do have a battery of sorts in them.
Drat this laptop keyboard, I don’t know if I’ll ever get used to it.
That should have been “extremely conscientious” (just in case it was interpreted as “extremely weird” or somesuch…) above.
Sounds like a bad ground may still be the problem, the new circuits may help, make sure the electrician checks the lugs on the panel and meter of the service. Also a check of the grounding wouldn’t hurt either. I once wired a ISP which had voltages drops so bad that when the AC kicked on the lights blinked out. Their UPS’s came on all day long, but there servers were fine. I changed the service to 700 amp and they still had the problem, so wiring doesn’t always fix everything. Your monitor may also be more sensative to voltage drops than the UPS. Look for a UPS that takes over at less of a voltage drop. I believe my APC comes on at 100v, that could be enough to shrink the screen.
Okay, here’s the latest from “Dad”:
http://www.smartcomputing.com/editorial/article.asp?article=articles/2003/s1411/11s11/11s11.asp&emid=105429 — Beware of Phony Joules & Inflated Run Times
http://www.smartcomputing.com/editorial/article.asp?article=articles/archive/c0305/07c05/07c05.asp&emid=105430 — UPS Roundup: Power Protection for Power Users
>>Bottom line, is to get the APC ES 725 for $99.99, Se http://www.APC.com< Dad sent the two links to Smartcomputing -- very good, informative, along with his recommendation. The price sounds awfully reasonable, too. Paul B., can you look at this and see if you have any objections?
Rayne,
These are a must read before buying a UPS.
I bought a APC Backup UPS-ES 450 for three reasons, I could afford it, it had the ability to shutdown the computer and it was available locally ( something that isn’t always easy where I live ). Besides the UPS I have a whole electrical service surge and noise protector and a surge strip plugged into the ups. I don’t trust one product to all the protection. All of this allows me to run the computer on the backup generator without any worries.
I wasn’t thinking of Mac OS X nor was I intending to imply that the OS had much to do with protecting the electronics. It was “The Other OS”, the open one, that I favor.
The reason why I think your choice of OS has something to do with your troubles has to do with what you have to do after a failure.
When you run Windows, for many types of problems, the usual remedy is reinstalling Windows. Then it’s like setting up your environment from scratch, for the most part. I don’t know about you, but at work (the only place I use Windows), it takes me at least a day+ to get back to normal after a hardware move, for example. But many other kinds of situations much less serious than a disk failure or a hardware swap also require reinstalling everything and setting up again.
Of course if your one and only hard disk gets hosed, if you haven’t got good backups (and few do), it doesn’t make any difference which OS you run, you start from the beginning.
Linux makes it possible to make a more robust system. You can create multiple partitions and deploy parts of your directory tree as appropriate. There is no Registry that takes everything down if it gets corrupted. Configuration data is stored in text files that you can look at and change. You can sometimes boot and repair with the system running in a degraded mode. You can boot a very full-featured OS from CD (Knoppix and other distributions) and fix your ailing system, or you can boot from any disk.
It’s difficult for me to capture the differences in a blog comment, but the feeling of control I have with Linux, versus the feeling of being a victim of Windows after the nth reinstall, are worth a lot.
If anyone is interested, I have been using Debian GNU/Linux for about 9 years.
Thought this site might be able to help you out with both UPS equipment and service. It advertises equipment and services from resellers all over the country, they’d be more than happy to help you out:
Buy or sell UPS equipment and uninterruptible power supply systems from resellers all accross the country
actually, you know that, i have a PC and i have 22 CRT plugged into it from my UPS. but it is working wel and really i dont have any kind of tention like this.i my self dont know what to say for your help…