AKMA is a Christian
AKMA reminds us (with special reference to the discussion going on among Joi, Jonathan, Shelley and various commenters) that as we generalize about Christianity, we’re talking about him, a real human being with complex beliefs.
This overall discussion is about the hardest problem in the world, harder than what ignited the Big Bang or how Madonna got people to invest in “Swept Away”: What do we do about incompatible beliefs, especially when those beliefs are about the biggest thing there is?
Shelley writes:
If you believe in God in a certain way, no matter how much you respect that others may not agree, you still have to believe your own truth is the Truth.
She appreciates AKMA’s ability to respect “each of our right to develop our own Truth, even if it doesn’t agree with his.” And you don’t have to know AKMA long to see the truth in Shelley’s comment.
But I think there is a problem with Shelley’s formulation that “you still have to believe your own truth is the Truth.” While you can certainly find strains of universalism in orthodox Judaism — “Our view of God is the only true view of God — there is also a strong sense that because God reveals Himself in history, He reveals Himself in the different ways that make sense to different peoples. That’s why Jews only rarely in history have tried to convert others, and far more commonly discourage conversionsThat’s why Jews don’t expect anyone else to keep kosher; God didn’t reveal Himself to others through that particular law. Furthermore, God reveals Himself to Jews by giving us a book of laws that literally makes no sense unless and until it is interpreted by humans who converse and argue for millennia; thus the “my truth is The Truth” doesn’t hold quite so cleanly for Jews.
My understanding is that Jews work out this morass of contradictions basically by saying “We’ve got our revelation. You go worry about yours. Oh, and you can stop trying to convert us already.”
On Belief
Both David Weinberger and AKMA wrote thoughtful responses to what is becoming a delicate and I think extremely interesting debate about religion, belief, and acceptance. Not an easy subject, and one must keep in mind that ‘ware, there be cacti here. I …
The Logic of Belief
One thing that I would like people to be careful about in the discussion about who believes in what, what it means for them to believe that and how right or powerful they are is the question of logic. Our typical ways of describing action, thought, int…
More god stuff.
Non-grumpy god talk for a minute. AKMA: On God(s) AKMA: On [Other People’s] Gods Joho the Blog: AKMA is a Christian AKMA and people like him are the core of Christianity. Strong in faith, strong in self. The Christian friends I have tend to be a lot li…
More god stuff.
Non-grumpy god talk for a minute. AKMA: On God(s) AKMA: On [Other People’s] Gods Joho the Blog: AKMA is a Christian AKMA and people like him are the core of Christianity. Strong in faith, strong in self. The Christian friends I have tend to be a lot li…
Shelley’s statement is an expression of the belief that Ghandi presented as “Even if you are in a minority of one, the truth is still the truth”. Ghandi held that there are many paths to the top of the mountain, but only one mountain, and this is an affirmation that you if you are upholding your truth then the whole world can be against you and you will not be wrong. And that ultimately they are all the same truth, just different views of it.
Your observation about “We’ve got our revelation. You go worry about yours” is the semantic equivalent.
This is my truth, tell me yours – Aneurin Bevan
A further argument for not taking one’s own faith as reason to tell others what to believe is the simple principle of uncertainty: merely to acknowledge that one is human and that humans are able to believe in some spectacularly erroneous things (barnacle geese, etc.) For myself (lapsed Catholic verging on Buddhism), it seems self-evident that any God who existed would necessarily be beyond my comprehension. It’s hard enough to understand other human beings — why do we think we’re capable of comprehensive knowledge of God? So I feel that I am bound to be faithful to my own perception of truth; but I’m keenly aware that I could be totally wrong. So I have no grounds for insisting that others agree with me.
That said, this way of looking at things is definitely colored by a sort of Judeo-Christian-Muslim monotheism. Traditional Chinese religious beliefs (and Shinto — see Jonathon’s blog) are all about a world populated with gods of various sizes and shapes and degrees of resemblance to humanity, and some of them are actually human. So the argument about the comprehensibility of God to the human mind may not stand up as well in such a context. But of course, traditional Chinese religion and Shinto, and even Chinese Buddhism (but not so much Japanese Buddhism), are all loosely organized enough to encompass a few extra gods more or less, so the problem pretty much disappears.
Belief and Acceptance
Years ago when I first started college, I was very good friends with an ex-navy person who went by the nickname of DiDi. At the time I met her she was married to a good ole Yakima boy, but she ended up divorcing him within a few months. One factor in t…
The main reason not to impose your religion on someone else, is simple civility and respect. No matter how strongly I have come to hold my faith, and on what basis, I have no right to tell another that they must believe the same. Persuasion short of control and coersion are another case, but if you want me to acknowledge and respect your religion you
had better show me a positive example of how one lives a moral life by its code. Trying to convince me with your words and appeals to your scriptures will be unconvincing.
Well, what if one of the major tenets of your faith is evangelism, to make disciples of all nations? How is this done? Gerry, you suggest something that is of use:”…if you want me to acknowledge and respect your religion you
had better show me a positive example of how one lives a moral life by its code. Trying to convince me with your words and appeals to your scriptures will be unconvincing.”
I agree. I am with you. But is it wrong to try? I am not suggesting coersion. Really. That does not lead to faith. I get that. I am trying to figure out how to proclaim without injury to the other and without watering down my faith.
This is a good struggle.
Pax!
Tripp, I understand that there may actually be a felt imperative to try: saving a soul is a big deal. Yet, being on the receiving end always feels like I’m being told that my religion is inadequate or incomplete.
Is there only one true religion? If so, then we should be struggling against the infidels, swords akimbo. If God reveals Himself to different people in different ways, then we can get past the One True Religion crisis, although I understand if some religions find that idea demeaning.
In other words, I don’t know.
“I don’t know” is as good an answer as I got.
It is just that there is this assumed mandate for Christians. Jesus said “Go and make disciples.” Thus, we go and, well, sometimes rape and pillage and sometimes establish hospitals and show love. Occasionally there are new Christians “made” through these actions. Trevor’s ideas of Christian performance are tied to this somehow. I’ll get to that before I graduate. Riiiight.
My girlfriend works with a theater company (www.triarts.org) and they recently created and performed a stage adaptation of Feiler’s book (Abraham). It was very interesting. Religious pluralism and the Abrahamic narrative as a reconciling narrative was the theme du jour. I think you would have liked it. I was able to serve on a pannel for dicsussion afterward. One of the questions sent my way was why Christians have to prostletize (spelling?!) instead of love.
That is the $10,000 question. Where I think we, as Christians, have gone wrong is that we too see it as something seperate from love when it is to be the same. It is not a “saving souls or else” kind of love. We do not love the other for the sake of ourselves or even the other, but for the sake of Christ. Evangelism is an act of love. It is love. Our faith is love of Christ for Christ.
It gets passionate and that is where we f-up. It gets stupid and messy. The proclamation is to be love, God’s love for the world. I dunno either, David. Thanks for letting me spew this stuff all over your blog.
There is something missing here: Spiritual development. When you say “I have to believe my own truth is The Truth,” you overlook the dynamic nature of spiritual growth. This is true for religions as it is for individuals. The reason why the bible is so full of contradictions is that it was written over a period of centuries. Just as the Hebrews changed the way they looked at God, so do we over our lifetimes. Even from day to day.
Everyone who comes to me with the message “I’ve got the answer!” seems to me to think they can put God in a box. It’s hard for me to take such talk seriously, no matter how convinced they may be in their beliefs, or how much good work they do.
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Belief and Acceptance
Years ago when I first started college, I was very good friends with an ex-navy person who went by the nickname of DiDi. At the time I met her she was married to a good ole Yakima boy, but she ended up divorcing him within a few months. One factor in t…
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